Building a Family Business That Harmonizes Life and Passion

Ever thought about turning your passion into a thriving business? In this episode, Pete Mohr sits down with Nick and Heather to explore how they built Old Delhi Music and Bava Harmoniums from scratch. Learn how they managed risk, expanded manufacturing to India, and created a brand known for quality and ethical practices.

Key Discussion Points: 

→ How Nick and Heather started their business from their basement 

→ The decision to expand manufacturing to India 

→ Managing business growth while homeschooling and traveling 

→ The importance of ethical manufacturing and fair wages

Are you looking to make some changes in your business and your life in 2024?  Head over to speaktopete.com and book a chat with me to see if we're the right fit!

Maximize Your Business’s Value with the Value Builder Assessment!

As a business owner, do you know what your company is truly worth? The Value Builder Assessment is a powerful tool that helps you uncover the key factors influencing your business’s value. Whether you're considering a sale, planning for the future, or simply want to grow, this assessment offers actionable insights to increase your business’s worth and appeal to potential buyers.

Don’t leave your business’s future to chance. Click here to take the Value Builder Assessment and start building a more valuable, resilient business today!

Book a no charge Freedom Call with Pete, to see if you’re a good fit for his business coaching or talk to Pete about speaking at your next event head over to http://speaktopete.com to find a time that works for you!

Pete's Websites:

Pete-Mohr.com
The Exit Ready Business
Kolbe Coach
Simplifying Entrepreneurship

LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/petemohr/
Instagram at ...

Transcript

0:00

Nick and Heather, welcome to the Business Owner Breakthrough podcast. It's so great to have you here today. Thanks Pete. Awesome. We have been chatting now. I looked back in my files before here since late 2021 and time goes quick. It's amazing really. As we look back and for those listening to the podcast today, Nick and Heather and I are in a coaching relationship and have been for a few years now as we work together building old deli music and building bava harmoniums. All the things we're going to talk about here and I mean I'm, I'm just an outsider looking in and kind of we banter around stuff and talk about things and talk about life, talk about business, talk about how it all interacts together and it's been a wonderful journey for me along the way and I wanted to share with the listeners here today just how great your business is and, and the life that you guys live as business owners and tell us a little bit about how did it all get started back in the day? So in our 20, we're touring musicians wrote a lot of songs back then and we played together and drove around the country and then had part time jobs, you know, to help pay the bills. Part time jobs and housemates who helped pay part of the rent when we were home and probably even prior to that, I think when we were first married, I just, I'm from a small town where most people, they're farmers or they figure out something to do to make money. There's not like a big company or hospital or university employment. So even before that I think I was like, Nick was lined up to work in a public relations office with his college degree and I was like, well, how about we start a coffee shop? How about we do something else? You know, I was always like, the office thing didn't make sense to me because it was foreign to me. I did not know people growing up who worked in offices. So we do the touring musician thing, I guess 10ish. I was pregnant with our first baby and Nick was feeling anxious about the fact that we didn't make much money. And so I played harmonium at that time. I had a harmonium. I guess that's an important piece. So as we travel. What is a harmonium? Oh, a harmonium is an Indian instrument, sort of like a tabletop pump organ. It has a keyboard on it and you pump air with one hand and play the keys with another hand, has stops and drums. And that's what I played when we traveled. We traveled with a harmonium and every Night, people would ask us, what is that thing? Where can I get one? And there really weren't great options in the US for where to get one. So Nick just looked at the brand of my harmonium, which we had bought in New York City, was one of the only places at that point you could get a harmonium. And he sent an email over to India and we imported our first harmoniums. Really not intending to start a business. I mean, we fully intended for him to stay in his stable university job that he took after we had a baby and just sell a couple harmoniums here and there on the side and didn't expect it to be a lot more than that. Yeah, yeah. So what we didn't know when we imported those first harmoniums that was that they were not going to be very good. We had kind of maybe accident, maybe not. You know, the guy who ran the store in New York, who. He's now retired and kind of in the process of starting our business within, you know, not very much time. He was like, hey, you're in the business now. He introduced himself and we became friends. Friends over, over the years and. But he, you know, he did a good job. He. He found some of the few good ones and got those into the U.S. but overall, what was available in India was not going to match the expectations of a person buying the instrument in the US Or Europe or wherever. You know, we have high standards. I learned. And, and then, you know, it. It became this process of working with Indian people to try to get the right stuff and then ultimately learning how to build it ourselves and starting our own manufacturing sites and our own brand, all this kind of stuff. Nick, you know, when you look at sort of starting in the basement, 2010, doing this and Heather, you know, new family, all this kind of stuff, how long did it take you from basement to sort of to the point where you're kind of saying, hey, you know what, maybe this is more than just a couple of instruments. This could be something that I do. I think we literally started selling about an instrument a month on ebay. And like Nick said, they were in horrible condition. They had to be rebuilt before we could ship one out. So it was very hands on, very intense. Yeah, that first shipment, I was just, you know, I could have gotten it. And the rational thing that a lot of people would do would just say, this was dumb, it was a bad idea. I'm a little bit more persistent than that. And I was like, well, I'm not going to just throw all this stuff away. Or put it in the, you know, fire pit or something. So I was like, let me see what I can do here. And then I started to get them sounding good and playing well enough that I felt good to post it on ebay like Heather just described. And we started selling those ones slowly and then, you know, ended up looking back on them. It was like, okay, well that was actually profitable. And, and, and then I had some opinions and I was like, well, I won't order those again. But these ones were actually pretty good. And we just started, you know, narrowing in on stuff that we thought we would want to sell and at the same time made a little website and then moved away from ebay relatively quickly. The website started selling everything and it was very passive. And honestly, as well as anyone has kind of remained this passive evolution just forever for 15 years now, where we've never done a lot in terms of active marketing. And that started right from, you know, I had a full time IT job at the University of Illinois. We also, at some point in the first couple of years of the kids coming into our lives, we bought our first foreclosure house and started turning that into a rental property. And you know, we just had our hands in all kinds of things. So I didn't, yeah, I wasn't trying to push growth. It just the growth happened. And by 2013 we decided or you, you, you said, so which, which one's going to be your job place where that was. There was one point where he was working day, night, weekend, just always working. It was like working a university job and then coming home and working on harmoniums and weekends were spent on harmoniums or rental house renovations. It was just like non stop work. And I was like, okay, we, we have to make a choice here. So you think that was 2013, three years in. So as it stands now, you've got this growing business, old deli music, and you've got your houses and stuff like that. You're adding in more than just harmoniums, right? You've, you've got stacks of harmoniums. There are the different brands and the different things and you're adding in supplemental products and other instruments and things like that and growing and starting to travel around to different shows and different things. And, and that's, that's the marketing we did was more. We found out from customers that actually there were events where people were using harmoniums as their primary instruments. There were entire styles of music and things that we were just not familiar with. And so we just kind of Started going to where those people were and setting up at those events and meeting people. And a lot of that still is our best marketing people who are familiar with these instruments and using them for various purposes. They know Nick from Old Delhi Music, and they might have met him in 2016 at Bhakti Fest or whatever. And that kind of like making friends, you know, meeting people, that kind of. That kind of marketing has been very beneficial. It's really helped you along the way to get some other people on board with the brand because you've met them at the different events down the road. You've got some influencers, you've got some other people that are helping you with the marketing inside of things, and you've aligned them with instruments and different things like that so that they can get the word out to their communities, too. And I think that's been a good avenue for you. I mean, a niche market, right? What you're doing is a niche market, but the beauty of it is, is you really do sort of own that market within North America. And as you're building your wholesale out with some of the other side of things, it's really. It's really penetrating several other countries around the world. I was thinking with the events and stuff, it was. It's probably kind of a risky thing to do. Like, we just. I mean, we loaded up our kids and maybe not the dog. I don't know. Sometimes we take the dog too, and we load it back of the van with instruments and like, took off to California, I guess. Or did we take a trailer? I don't know. We started in the Midwest and then we heard about, oh, the big ones are in California. And it was just kind of a slow evolution, you know, by a enclosed trailer to bring everything in. And then, you know, you're going to Colorado and going to Georgia or wherever, you know, and. And then eventually made it all the way out to California. And, I mean, we've done that for the better part of a decade. And this is all on the heels of having, like, quit a very stable job at a university. You know, I mean, maybe less stable right now, but, you know, it's. It was kind of crazy, but also it was like, right in line with, as Heather described. We had been touring as musicians. We've never taken the most stable path. We've kind of followed, like, what feels like the thing for us rather than what. What gives us the best insurance or. Whatever, you know, One of the things that I often say is your business and your personal lives as an entrepreneur, blend Together. Several years ago, you made the choice to homeschool for your family. And one of the things I think is really cool with the way you do things is you're able to take your out on these various trips and tours. And at the same time, it's like we're doing education, we're doing, you know, all the different things. You include the family dynamics and the education portion and all these other pieces of the puzzle as you travel for business too. And it is all sort of part and parcel of your family and your business. It's all like one big thing that wraps together. And the kids are growing up, they're seeing all of this happening. They're seeing the growth, they're seeing how you guys are putting this stuff together. They're going and actually seeing the places where it's happening too. So the kids must be growing up with a fairly entrepreneurial mindset as well. Yeah, I think that's true. Yeah. One of our daughters in particular, who's 12 now, she. She loves like getting out in the desert in California and setting up the tables and the shelves and setting all the instruments out and interacting with the customers. Like she very much enjoys that whole whole process, I think. And she's also the child who's bugging her dad about making a farm stand because she needs a farm stand at the end of our lane. Planning to have some extra veggies and make a farm stand this summer. Well, a couple of really interesting things have happened. I mean, since we've started talking, you know, almost, well, three, three and a half years ago or whatever it may be now, a while ago, back, you'd always sort of talked about making the move because your. Your North American business basically run out of your homestead. There's a barn there and you guys have had that as part of where Old Deli, the face of Old Deli is really, because it's an online store at this point in time. And just recently you've purchased a whole complex downtown that you're going to move operations to. And that's been something that's been in the work and this idea of planning and planning and working towards things. But that's been the goal for a long time. And now as you're renovating that place, getting ready to move in, it's gotta. It's gotta feel pret. Pretty good for you to see these things happening and moving ahead in that direction. You know, it's been a long time coming. We've got this warehouse that we bought. I really didn't want to Rent anything. I'm just that I'm stubborn about that. Probably not the best business decision, but I. I waited until we could buy something, and. And we did purchase something in December, and now we're renovating that space. And the space is four times the size of the barn that Pete was describing, which we built in 2017. And I just imagined that we'd be there forever. The business has grown bigger and whatever than we imagined. So this new space is going to allow us to do more products than we currently can. And it's just. It's really fun right now, researching different things, trying to figure out, you know, what makes this, you know, particular instrument sound good. What are the. What are the crucial ingredients to. To have a really, you know, the. The top 1% of singing bowls or the. The very best gongs, you know, on earth. It's just, you know, it's like a whole new business that we're getting into 15 years in. Well, you know, I'm a retailer, and a lot of. A lot of people go from having brick and mortar stores to having online stores, and that's been sort of the progression over the last 15 years. And over the last 15 years, you went from being an online retailer to almost. And almost opening your doors to the public, where you can actually be selling brick and mortar and add all these new products and have people come in and try them out and all of that sort of stuff. It's pretty. It's pretty exciting times for old deli music. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's. You know, we haven't talked about the manufacturing side, and that whole. That's been, you know, the focus of really, the last five years. The story kind of between these two pieces is eventually I got fed up with everything that was available from traditional manufacturers and just decided that I needed to be a manufacturer. Now, that's rolling really well. We're not only providing the instruments for ourselves, but we're providing them for people in Europe and Australia and all over the world who were like, hey, you finally cracked the code. Can I buy from you? So, you know, that that exists. And now we're finally to a place where it's like, hey, let's focus on retail. You know, it's this weird back door that we've kind of come through to, you know. Yeah. Just feels like we're starting to. I'm. Yeah. I mean. And again, we, like, never expected to go there. I think, like, we expected this to be a side thing in our basement, and then it really outgrew our basement. So we moved to a different location with a bigger basement, and then it outgrew that basement. So then it's. We put up the barn, and now it's becoming, you know, even outgrowing the barn and moving elsewhere, which was. You're in the shoe business. And I think that a metaphor we could use here is, it's like, I had to start Birkenstock and figure out how to manufacture Birkenstocks so that I could then open up a shoe store. It's an amazing thing. So this piece of the puzzle is, is Bava. And Bava is the brand really that you've created here. And, you know, when we first kind of started talking, you're like, well, I'm starting a business in India and it's Covid time and I can't go there. And like, there was so many things right as you looked at. It's like, okay, I've got this place where it's rented. I've got a partner in India that's going to do some stuff and he's going to hire some people. But you're working across the world and literally have ever since then, because you set up the systems, you set up the processes. Yes, you've been there a few times, but, you know, you haven't been there that often. Often for actually doing the amount of business that you do out of the factory with having, give or take, 25 people working for you, building instruments over there every day, and then taking those instruments, shipping them across the world, including back to you in, in. In the States to supply your old deli business. But they're supplying all these other businesses, too, and you've gone through all sorts of different things along the way. Tell us a little bit about the journey of saying, okay, I'm buying from other people, but now I'm going to create my own. What made that decision? And I know you said quality was one of them, but what, what, what was the last straw to say, I'm doing this, and let's, let's. Let's make this happen. And then there's that journey, too, that I like to explore. Yeah. So in 2017, 2018, I had a friend who was kind of newly divorced. He came in and he. We were like buddies. We would go get breakfast together. And one day at breakfast, you know, he was telling me about how things were going and things he was thinking about. He was an attorney. And Jacob said that, hey, man, I just need to change things up. Life's been crazy and all this going on. And he Said, I'm either going to go to Argentina and teach English, or I think it'd be really cool to work with you on this business you have going. And I told him to go, go to Argentina, but he ended up. He ended up convincing me that. That this was a good idea. You know, I brought him in. He's, you know, very technically minded too. I showed him all the things. And because, you know, he didn't have any kids and he wasn't married at that point, we ended up sending him to India and a logistics partner over there who had become a friend from. From my travels. Sanjeev helped us hire two people, father and son, who their job and their business was like going to schools and tuning instruments. And they were like instrument techs. So we ended up hiring them. Jacob came in and trained them, and they were just going to do kind of first round quality control for us. And then we also ended up working with them to go to the manufacturers and kind of evaluate things first, you know, at the factory. And then we'd say, like, we do or don't want this stuff. People didn't like that. They were used to being able to send us whatever they were going to send us. He made a few, you know, like it complicated relationships when we started having staff there and quality control. And eventually, By January of 2020 of all times, with no knowledge of what was about to, I was in India and I sat down with Sanjeev and we basically said, this is our plan. We're going to hire this many people and we're going to try to make our own instruments without these other guys. And then just a couple months after making that decision, there were lockdowns and all this kind of stuff. But we navigated through all that kind of stuff by, I don't know, sometime that summer, we had our first instruments that were actually coming out of our production, and they were very costly to make. We had so many expenses, and the truth is, like, we didn't really know what we were getting into. Covid ended up being a great sales time, but all of that money funneled back into all just the costs associated with getting this thing off the ground. And, you know, gratefully, we had good cash flow for a couple years on the retail side, and we had enough, you know, bulk inventory and stuff to kind of sell through that. It all worked out, but it was. It was, yeah, you know, it was very intense in all ways, and. And it took longer than we ever expected and stuff. But by 2022, we were starting to sell some Instruments wholesale to people who were recognizing like, hey, what are you doing over there? And my 2023, that really took off. 2024 was even better. At this moment in 2025, we've sold about a half year's worth of our production for, you know, to wholesale. And yeah, so we're, we're in really good shape. But yeah, my memories of that time, 2020, 2021, where all the money is getting funneled into starting this shop was lots of uncertainty and lots of like, is this gonna work? Is this like. Or are the instruments always going to be so expensive to make that it just. It doesn't even make sense and should we just call it and close. Close the doors now and go back to doing something, Something different. I remember, I remember some of those early conversations, right? We're talking about this stuff and saying, kind of rolling through and saying, hey, what should we be doing here? How should we look at this? And these, some of those different things, right? It was, it was funny looking at, you know, because we've got various items. We, we not only sell harmoniums, we also sell sitars and tablas, which. Sitar is a string instrument. Tabla is a traditional Indian drum. That's kind of our lane. But we were surviving on sitars, you know, like sitars was paying for the difference. When, you know, at certain times, you know, you're just doing the calculation, you're realizing, like, we just sold that harmonium for 650 and it costs 750 to make it, you know, so it was. And there were a lot of frustrations too. And just like getting the instruments right. Things with like, they'd come over here and there's still like a lot of problems. And you know, between me and Jacob and, you know, it was just very patient process of like, okay, well, we got all these things right, but. But these problems remain and lots of back and forth. And what's funny is like, it was all like just phone. You know, you're making a video showing, you know, and then sending it over WhatsApp to India. And the next day they're going over those things. I mean, the thing that's amazing too is like we over that time, we didn't exhaust people. One thing that we did unique, that is probably key ingredient here was we just came in with the attitude that we're not going to get good work out of people. If we tie them to make this on a per piece basis, which is how the whole industry works. In that example, if it was shoes, you get paid for how many shoes you made that day. In our instance, it was if you're tuning instruments, you get paid for how many you tune. And in that instance, I just knew from my own experience, well, I'm not going to do good work if I'm tied to, you know, production numbers. So we decided we're going to just pay everyone's salary. We did that through, like, the worst possible time, you know, in the startup. But we gave people stability. We took a system that's largely in the shadows, more than I can get into here. But a lot of people who work in this industry, they're being paid kind of under the table and they're not being paid fairly. There's a lot of abuse that we knew about then and we know even more about today. But we said there's going to be, you know, everyone gets paid above board, everyone has access, so that when you pay your taxes, you also get all the benefits that come with paying those taxes. You can go to the hospital, you can go to the public schools, you can do all these things. And so it's great for their families, it's great for them. We built that as the foundation, believing that you have to treat the people great in order to get, get good work out of them. And if ultimately we're gonna then on the heels of that, ask for, you know, all these things that we're gonna have them do different than any other shop in India, you know, and they all know people working all over India making these instruments, and they say, nobody does it like this. And I'm like, but we're going to, you know, and, and, and hopefully you can be patient with me because I've been generous to you. And I think the culture there is the amazing thing that family Cult guys have built since day one. You have it at, at your home, you have it in your American operations, you have it in the community that you guys are selling to. I mean, it's a big community, and it's a community that everybody's feeling good and in a good space. And I just love the idea of what you've been doing over in India around creating this family. I mean, I'm thinking right now of the one time when you guys a couple of years ago went over there and took a whole bunch of photo shoots and stuff and the big family. It's like everybody's happy, everybody's doing well, everybody's treated well, everybody's working towards common goals. That's how business grows. When you're treating your team and you're treating the people that work with you as awesome as you do. I mean I, I can only imagine that there are a lot of their friends are wishing they came to work for you. And another interesting thing is that, you know, not only are you growing here in North America, but as of one of our last calls, you were saying we're starting to look and you, and you doubled the size of your shop about a year or maybe two years ago. Right now you're saying, oh, we got to grow again over there because our business on the manufacturing side of things with Baba is exploding. And you mentioned it, we're already backed out six months because of wholesale orders and all of the stuff that we need here for Old Delhi. And things are growing, things are really moving ahead. So the next step is we need a bigger space in India, right? Yeah, yeah. And just, you know, within reason and a lot of it, this is a 15 year year story that we're talking about. So we don't do anything too hastily and we're, we're absurdly patient probably, probably you know, to your frustration at times, you know, but that's just, I don't think that we want to do anything that's uncomfortable for us or for other people. So yeah, we're looking at right now our operation because we started it just, you know, renting one space. It's grown to now we, we have that main space still which was three stories when we rented it first, now it's five. That's how India works. You just tack more on top and they do it so fast. And in addition to that space, we've got another place where we store lumber. We've got another space where we do all of our carpentry because that space is zoned properly for industrial. It had the right kind of power grid to, you know, be able to use a CNC machine and, and use an industrial table saw, all this kind of stuff. Three phase power, that's what we needed there. So anyway, so we've got three spaces and they're all a distance from each other. So there's a lot of inefficiency. So what we're looking, looking at is if we go about 35km out into currently rural area surrounding Delhi and we buy a piece of land and we, you know, build our own manufacturing site there. On one level we could just have a lot better efficiency. We're not necessarily looking to be gigantic or anything, but it just bringing everything together because it's already grown in such a way that it really doesn't make sense. We never would have designed it this way. We've talked to, you know, my 5Pmodel, the promise, the product, the process, the people, the profit. We've talked about sort of the product a lot. We've talked about the people. But you're a person who really hones in on process and really does a good job with aligning process so that things happen as well as aligning accountability. And I think that's one of the key things here. And for those listening, I mean, you guys are running a business across the world. And how many times have you been there in the last five years? Maybe four or five times? Twice. Yeah, three times. And, you know, all of this is happening because you have good people in place, because you have the right culture in place, because you have the right process in place, because you actually align and assign accountability to the people that are able to make the decisions so that you can have these things happen and your business can grow at the pace of the pace that you want and feel comfortable with. And I think that's really some interesting things. When you think about this progression, and we've been through this, and you said it yourself, sometimes frustrating. It's like, let's just go. And I'm saying, let's just go, because that's sort of my nature. And you're like, well, we're going to look at this a little bit more. And, you know, but that's good. That's sort of bantering back and forth around this stuff. And I think, you know, my job as a coach is to keep you guys thinking about all these sort of things. And your job is to understand that whole how it fits into the life and the family and how you guys want it all to happen. Right? And I just think going through this stuff with you over the last few years has been so interesting. And the growth journey to me is the proof that you're doing what you need to do. And you guys are still enjoying, you know, all of the things that you're with your family and being able to take them out on these awesome trips and do all this stuff along the way. Not too many people have the opportunity to do that while they're actually bringing in a good income and enjoying growth and all the other things. And, you know, what could you say to somebody who's thinking about this sort of now and talking about, say, the homeschooling side of things, talking about the way you guys live, talking about the way you do business as. As that sort of couple, you know, from a couple perspective, what could you say to somebody who's thinking now about maybe the time is now and maybe we should embark in this journey and how do you feel about the last 15 years for you and your family? I'd say start small and expect it to be a long road. I think a lot of our culture is very impatient and wants instant gratification. And I don't know that that's ever been our expectation. And that's been helpful if you, if you set your expectations low, you know, like you're, you know. Because 15 years later it looks like we had some brilliant ideas. But the truth is, like, I, I think I told you this the other day. I didn't even know. I don't think I even identified myself as an entrepreneur until several years in when other people said, oh, you're an entrepreneur. And I'm like, oh, I guess that's a thing, you know, but just, just one very small step at a time is, is the way this has been for us. And in very conservative steps, we really, it sounds like risk, but in 2013, when I decided to leave the university, I already had a hundred plus thousand dollars worth of inventory sitting in my basement and paid for with cash. I had never taken a dime out of the business, except maybe to go towards putting into like a rental property. Everything we were reinvesting, we were living on that university salary. And then did it look like a risk to some people? Oh, you're going to give up that salary? Yeah, it did look like a risk. But also I knew that the worst case scenario, sell down that inventory and figure out the next step. You know, it was a risk though. It was a calculated risk, but it was a risk of giving up the stables salary that came in every two weeks and they were actually offering him raises, trying to keep him there, which then it's even harder to give up the stable salary. It was a risk of giving up really good health insurance for subpar health insurance. You know, we still have health insurance. It's not as good, you know, it's, it. So there, there were risks, but it was a calculated risk too. And it was, it was a lifestyle choice. Like what Pete? What you talking about? That, you know, it's what lifestyle do you want? You want to be going to the university every day for, you know, and working for someone else? Or do you want to try this. Other thing and have the independence? And I don't think for us, like, I don't think that we would want any other life, but certainly like it's so complicated. Everything we're talking about, like, if, if you're not ready for all the complications and all the unexpected bumps in the, and the uncertainty of launching this thing and making minimum payments, you know, those months, you know, like, and things like that. Like, if you just can't stomach that, then you're normal and that's okay. And like, it is easier to send your kids to school where a teacher can teach them, but also it's really cool to be out there looking at the painted desert and having your daughter tell you what the colors are, you know, when she's, you know, two years old and have that, have that memory. So there's, it's like really high highs and really low lows, and you just got to kind of keep a cool head through all of it. And yeah, I think our, with homeschooling, too, are. We've always said we're going to take it a year at a time. And I, I mean, I think with business, with homeschooling, like, all of it, take it a year at a time because it's, you know, I, our oldest is 14 now, and I did not expect we would still be homeschooling. I never intended to homeschool in the first place. We kind of happened into it and, and he's, he's thinking he might want to go to high school. So again, it's a year at a time. Is he going to high school next year? Is he homeschooling next year? How's that going to affect our lifestyle and our business and all the, all the things. Things. Yeah, so that's, yeah, that's good. In summary, start small and focus on the little steps and one year. Time. That's, that's the advice. Looking ahead. Let's, let's frame sort of three to five years from now. And you're saying take it one year at a time, but I'm actually asking you to reach out and say three to five years from now, what do you, what are you seeing? Where do you think you'll be at with, with both Old Deli and Bava? Where do you think you'll be at with sort of the family and all of that kind of stuff? And how does, how does this look? Where, what, what do you think you'll be doing, say, five years from now, as we speak here, February 20, 30. It would be five years from now. We will have our first child in college. Yeah. He will have survived this upbringing and likely we will have the means to help him, you know, with the expense of tuition and these kind of things because we've been fortunate in that way. And I think that Bava will. In the same way, Martin Guitars is a guitar brand that, you know, will stand the test of Time and Air has. I think Bava is going to do that. We have another brand. I won't say anything about that right now, specific, but that's going to be launching this year. And it's a whole different styles of instruments, and I think that's going to exist and be doing well. Excited for that one. And I think that probably our wholesale business and this brand, you know, it might really have continued to exceed expectations. I also think that the awareness of these weird instruments that we. Cell, you know, weird. You know, maybe you've never heard of them. I think that awareness has. Will have continued to grow over that time. And you might see these instruments in more mainstream contexts. They're. They're already on the peripheral, but I think they might be more in the view. As a musician, myself and an acoustic musician, I mean, think acoustic musical music. Roots. Roots music is having a resurgence. Right. And I love the fact that you're positioned to be a part of a potentially really large thing that's happening here. I. I don't know. I just. We were back and forth earlier this week about this, just offside. And it's like, I really do think there is a huge resurgence of roots music. And, you know, you being the primary supplier of this particular portion of it is. Is really cool and really exciting and there's so much to get behind there. Yeah, well, and it's not just roots music. It's just. It's also sound and sound creating tools, which. I know that sounds really weird to a lot of people, but, like, there's. There's a lot of people who are getting deeper into meditation and experiencing the power of vibration, a sympathetic vibration and all this kind of stuff as a way of calming themselves. And I think that there's just a lot of opportunity for that in. In that space. And we go to these musical kind of conferences and it feels like mostly we're almost trying to shout at people like, hey, there's an opportunity here for your retail store that happens to be in like, the most hippie place ever, Colorado, you know, like. Like, why don't you. You try to sell this along with, you know, your, you know, guitars, you know, and. And people are. I think people are going to continue to catch on to that. That, you know, they're in. And we're going to continue to see a lot of growth in these, you Know these, these other types of instruments that, that you don't have to develop calluses to play. Yeah, there you go. As I'm looking at my fingers here. Yeah, exactly. If I could only. I mean, you can hear them tapping because they're so hard, basically. But yeah, here's a good example. My accountant, who, he's a cool accountant, but he's an accountant, not a musician. But he has this singing bowl, this brass singing bowl sitting right by his desk and he's so proud of the thing and he'll just, you know, ding that thing and it gives him a calm and, you know, and he discovered that just the last few years. And I think there's going to be more people like Jim. So. So, yeah, that's. That's part of the next one, the harmonium. And there's a similar reed instrument called a shruti box. How would you describe a shruti box? It's a box with a brass reeds in it and it makes an organ kind of tone. Yeah, both the harmonium and the shreddy box are very. I mean, they like contribute to soundscapes and, you know, useful. And you've heard them. You didn't. You might not know that you've heard them, but you heard them just sounds. They're an amazing instrument. And I encourage anyone listening. If you want to learn a little bit more about this, go over to old delimusic.com go over to Baba Harmony. It's a Baba harmonium company, isn't it, Nick? Babaharmonium.com or Babaharmoniums.com There you go. Yeah, and you've got some great videos. You've got some great stuff there too, that people, people can understand and get a better idea of the. These wonderful instruments that we've been talking about here on the podcast today. And it's been great having both of you. I love our chats and I want to thank you for coming on here and sharing a little bit for our audience here today about how you blend and how you harmonize business and life from your family to your business and, and all throughout the world. Now it's just an amazing story. So thanks for being with me here. Today for a few years. I think when we started, I told Heather, I was like, yeah, we'll try this guy for, you know, a few months and I'm sure we'll get some good ideas from him and stuff. And it's just been a really great relationship and Pete knows our business as well as anyone, just has great philosophies. And ideas and is always able to kind of provided a different perspective as we work through this, that and the other. And we're just really grateful for everything you've offered us and our family. And it's been very valuable and. And 100% to any other small business owner that is considering, like, do I really want to spend all that money on coaching and that kind of a thing? What I would say is whatever we've spent, you know, whatever that is, Pete has helped us recoup that times. 3, 4, 5. I mean, every year. You know, it's. It's continuous that. And, you know, I need that. I am like Pete describes. I am a process guy. I am a product guy. At a certain point, Pete had to tell me. He had to say, hey, do you just, you know, is it already the best product in its category? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, you should sell it. Appropriate price on that thing. And, you know, so it's. It's just been so valuable to have. I think, has kind of pushed us into the wholesale too. And we're like, oh, okay. You know, has helped us through that journey a lot. So. So big. Yeah. So. So Pete's awesome. For those who. Who don't already know that, if you're listening to this, you know that. But, you know, I. I just want to. You know, Pete didn't ask us to say any of this. He's great, and. And if you have any temptation to work with him, I would encourage it. He's a wealth of knowledge and. And also just a very honest friend and, you know, no, no bs. We appreciate that about it. Yeah, that's. That's sort of I should have a no BS Part of my marketing. I think, you know, as I look back and I mean, I think one of the biggest things. Because we really didn't plan on this, and I appreciate. You know, I appreciate you and I appreciate your kind words, but as I kind of look back and summarize a couple of the things that we've done, I mean, wholesale was a big one for sure. Over the last year and a half or two years has been a big piece of the puzzle. But I think before that. And you just hit it there, Nick, a little bit pricing. And I think the reluctance to raise prices was such a big thing at the time. Time to. And I was like, let's get them up, let's get them up, let's get them up. And finally you're like, I don't think we can do it. I'm like, let's just do it, let's test it. And it's like, oh, we can do it. And it's like, let's do it again. And so it was one of these things to say, you know what, you do have the best quality instruments in the entire world and people will pay and want to pay for the best ever. And when you're in that sort of situation, it was like, like, wow, we can actually do some stuff here and not only lead the market in technology, because one of the things we didn't talk about today, Nick, is the fact that you guys are leaders in technology, research and development and all of that stuff. You've made some significant improvements in these instruments compared to what's been done over the last 50 years. And the instruments that you're making these days with BABA are not even comparable in some cases. The way the fit and the finish and the end product and the quality and the design and the look, I mean, you have revolutionized the way they're made. The sound. Yeah, I mean, this, everything about it has really revolutionized the industry. And when you are leading the industry like that, and I know you've got some interesting stuff. I've seen some pictures here this week, come through some interesting stuff that's coming up again. And research and development costs money too. Right. And that was one of the, one of the ideas here. It's like, hey, if we're going to do this and we need more money to build some new technologies and stuff like that, we. It's got to come from somewhere. And so, so many different things along the way. And truly, like, without these discussions and with, without that encouragement, like, we would not have been able to afford to get from where we were to where we are today. So it has not only been necessary and yeah. So anyway, thank you, Pete, for meeting us when you did. And, and it's, it's been a real pleasure, I think, for. I agree. And I'm looking to continue on our pleasurable conversations and all of that stuff as we continue to grow old, Deli and Bava down the road. It's. It's an exciting time and some new stuff coming out too. So until we see each other again, thanks so much again and thanks to you, the listener. And please reach out, take. Reach out to Nick and to Heather, take a look at their websites and experience some of these awesome instruments, at least on YouTube, at least on the different ways that you can do it virtually. But then you can actually get one to your home too, which is going to be even more exciting. So thanks so much. We'll talk soon. Make it a great day. Thanks, Pete.