Vai 00:00
The problem starts from you know, if you have not evaluated the job, why you need the job, what the person is going to do? How can you create a job description. And I think most HR managers, or HR leaders will probably agree that the most difficult task is to create a job description that will say everything about what the person will do and what or the person is expected to perform on. And thereby finding the right people for the right job
Pete Mohr 00:23
and fitting them into the accountability chart or the organizational chart, right?
Vai 00:27
Absolutely. That's your starting point. And a job evaluation is your starting point of your of any job or any position that you have in an organization.
Pete Mohr 00:39
Hey, it's Pete, and welcome to the simplifying entrepreneurship podcast. It's the series designed to help you change your entrepreneurial worries and wants into wins by providing the tips and tools that will help you cut through the chaos and create clarity for your business, allowing you the ability to level up your business and life. Always remember, you lead your business, it shouldn't lead you. And this week, I'm talking to viotti Heron, and we're going to talk about how you can attract the right fit talent to your organization. Lots of great things about recruiting vies, an awesome recruiter, and in that human resources aspect of business. She's got some great takes on lots of interesting things. And we're gonna dig in here really quick and talk about power of your accountability chart and defining the job outlines and how they fit into that creating the culture that you want in your business. And what does that mean, along with the costs of making the wrong choice when you hire so lots of great stuff on this episode, and we'll talk to you on the other side. Hey, Bae, welcome to another edition here of the simplifying entrepreneurship podcast. It's wonderful to have you back here today.
Vai 01:55
Hello, again, Pete.
Pete Mohr 01:56
I'm excited about today's topic. I mean, the soft part of our business people, and it's such a big part of the business and hiring is such a big part of the business and hiring correctly. You know, and today's sort of question of the day is, how do you attract the right fit talent to your business? Love to hear your take on that,
Vai 02:17
you asked me to speak about the most favorite part of my job recruiting, I think I'm a recruiter at heart. Regardless of what level of human resources I may reach, I think I would like to always be a recruiter, it always intrigues me when I interview the different kinds of behaviors that candidates and future employees portray when they are in the interview. There are ways and techniques how you know whether it's their best behavior, or whether that's who actually they are. And even as a human being, when you're on the other side of the table as a candidate, you want to be cognizant of how you're portraying yourself and your skills? So very good question. Thank you. Thank you for asking that question. And for entrepreneurs, it becomes a little bit more, I would say easier to be easier when they're trying to develop a new team or a new organization or a new culture, they get to decide what culture they actually want, what kind of skills behavioral competencies they want in the organization, to be able to reach to where they want to be able to eat or achieve what they want to be able to achieve. So deciding on that core competencies in terms of behavioral competencies is the key thing that will allow entrepreneurs to be able to find the right fit for themselves. I remember in one of my interviews, the CEO asked me, What are your ideas of what if I give you stock options, and I was very naive, and I said, No, I want my salary instead. And what he was trying to assess at that time, he of course, hired me. But what he was trying to assess at that time is I want employees in my organization to be entrepreneurs themselves, take ownership, take accountability, own the business, Own your area of business. And that is what will allow you to make sure that you understand the risks that come with owning the business, the risks that come with taking risks itself. So I think that is what if you want passionate people, if you want people who are just doers, if you want administrators, if you want just mechanics, you want just people to move things from one place to another depends on what you want and hire for the right fit based on the behavioral competencies you want your culture to portray.
Pete Mohr 04:29
I like that one of the tools that I have in my business, I call it the candidate evaluation. And I'd like your opinion on it. I haven't shown this to you before. So but I'm going to hit you up with it. And one of the things I do when I hire and what I often recommend to people that I work with and coach with, it's like there's the four C's. And the first see is capability, what's their ability to do the job. Number two is capacity, what's their ability to grow, fulfill their job requirements and advance in the business. Number three is confidence. Because confidence is you can either have too much confidence or too little confidence. Yeah. So I think confidence is a piece of the puzzle. And the other one is culture. And does the culture fit? Are they the right fit for the organization and wait, wait these things, even those only four boxes, the first three out of 20, and the last one out of 40. So n equals 100. So culture for me, is 40 points out of the 80. If they fit in the right mix, and the other three boxes are only 20 points, what's your thought on that?
Vai 05:35
Okay, you may not like my thought on it, okay. But yes, I would not hire for culture fit. Because then you tend to achieve as an organization, you do not want anyone who is challenging your culture, your culture may be good for you. But you are never growing as an organization, the herd immunity in my previous conversation that we had, there is a herd culture, you will want to be able to see challenge, you know, you don't want people who are always coming together and whatever you do you want those few odd ones who would kind of come and say, hey, yeah, great, you have a great culture. But you know, have you thought about this? And have you thought about that the challenge, always kind of make sure that you don't get into your comfort zones,
Pete Mohr 06:19
I think that's an interesting way to look at it. Because those as we call it, odd ducks or whatever you want to call it, they can still be part of the way I look at it is they can still have the culture of your business in mind. But they having the ability to challenge it, I think is the culture itself. Challenging culture is a good thing.
Vai 06:38
Yes. Challenging culture is a great thing. In fact, yeah, you know, that is why when you say that you are going to wait 40% Yeah, is what the issue is going to be. Because you know, you may have somebody who probably brings out the best in their work, just by being themselves, they operate, you know, you must have heard about a lot of behavioral competencies, the disc analysis or the inside, you know, people with personality traits, like I come from a current Corporation, where we used to have those kinds of color combinations written outside of our cubes. And people before they would come to meet with us, they will say, Oh, you carry orange blue, then maybe you don't want people to kind of come and automatically to ask you a question, right? Because they don't want to disturb you. And and I think that kind of culture creates silos, and doesn't allow a lot of juggling between different departments or different organizations or different thought processes, even while you should be appreciative of other people's time and their work and what they are trying to achieve in the eight hours that they're trying to put in the organization. However, at the same time, you know, we spend a lot of waking hours in the in the company that we work in, there has to be some kind of a flexibility which you should allow in your organization. And when you try to look for cultural fit, what that does is you try to bring in people, just like yourself, and you don't do it on a deliberate basis. Unless and until you're very conscious about how you're hiring, you know, there are multiple biases, and these biases already make it difficult. And your choices very wrong sometimes, because of the biases when you're interviewing people now like yeah, so you know, maybe you want to definitely hire for culture, because if they are a complete opposite, yeah, then you don't want them you want them to succeed. You want all your employees to succeed. No, I
Pete Mohr 08:24
like that vibe. That's That's great. I mean, that's the point of having conversations, right? And the fact that people have different views on different things and everything that makes us all better that makes that makes everything awesome, right? So great. Awesome. What are the costs of hiring incorrectly was one of the things very
Vai 08:42
high, very high. I mean, I'm not even talking about the cost that you can place a value on, of course, those costs are there. However, I think I read somewhere in a research that I researched about, you know, what are the cost of hiring poorly, because we had a very high attrition rate in the manufacturing and warehousing industry that I was employed with? And it is more than $10,000 However, these employees were all minimum wage, and how would the cost be $10,000. It's the investment and it's about the people who bring them to be where they are, even if it is one month, two months, or three months, and the training costs and the investments by the company in terms of the hours they put in, that makes it so expensive. Besides the dollar value, I think it's the complete morale that gets hit. Why don't people want to stay with the organization? You know, and not many entrepreneurs, not many leaders, not many managers tend to think like that. Not many managers tend to think like that. It may be the model of the business and that's fine. When if it's a part time job, people are only working during hours which are you know, outside of their school. I had a very interesting communication when I was hiring part timers with my HR manager, and I said we should create an external bench wherein every year during her summer, we have are the same students, we create an external bench of talent. And every summer they come, they work with us. And then at the end of four years, five years, whenever they are ready, you hire them as full time employees, and you know, for a fact that they are committed, they know your culture, they are trained, you tend to gain so much out of that process. Yeah, it's a loss of knowledge, regardless of whether it's one week, one month, one year doesn't matter.
Pete Mohr 10:24
I have a friend of mine, who is a retailer and they have a wonderful nursery. And from that perspective, they often get the same people back every year. And having that ability is is just a wonderful thing. Yes, they're going to school and stuff like that, when they're finished school, then they can come and work on a full time basis if they want. Or even if they don't, they have that cumulative experience year after year, so that they've had them all for years. And it really becomes this right fit for them. That's right. Yeah, I like that returning portion that you just mentioned there. I think that's awesome. Yes. External bench external bench.
Vai 11:00
Yeah, I like, yeah, my HR manager when I gave that idea to him, he said, If anyone asks, you tell them, it's my idea. That is his idea.
Pete Mohr 11:08
I like that one. That's good. What are the three key things that people overlook when hiring by
Vai 11:15
actually, the most silliest mistake, I would call it a silly mistake that people do or organizations do is they don't have an exact idea as to why the job is posted? Like, you know, is it a new job? Is it a replacement? Or is that just like that, like, you know, there is no evaluation of why that job is, or should be holding a place in the organization in your organization chart. In your position? evaluation, there is no deep thought that's given into it. I had a founder who once told me, let's hire for a product manager. And I'm like, okay, product manager told me more, and he didn't tell me more. And then finally, at the end of the day, he actually wanted to hire somebody on the shop floor, meaning like a production manager. But he didn't want him to call him a production manager, because we already had a few of those. And he wanted this particular person to be able to do something else, that he was not sure what he was going to do. So the problem starts from, you know, if you have not evaluated the job, why you need the job, what the person is going to do, how can you create a job description, and I think most HR managers, or HR leaders will probably agree that the most difficult task is to create a job description that will say everything about what the person will do, and what the person is expected to perform on. And thereby finding the right people for the right job.
Pete Mohr 12:36
And fitting them into the accountability chart or the organizational chart. Right?
Vai 12:40
Absolutely. That's your starting point. And a job evaluation is your starting point of your of any job or any position that you have in an organization. I think that's the easiest thing to be overlooked. You know, it is it is usually based and entrepreneurs are the key culprits. I would call them corporate because, you know, they just comes out of their whims and fancies. I have seen this happening somewhere else, let's do it in hours, you know, doesn't work like that.
Pete Mohr 13:05
It's true. I mean, you're early on in my earlier years, I certainly did that. It's like, oh, let's just let's just go right. And I'm a little more regimented about it now, 27 years later of being an entrepreneur, but I can certainly recall those days where you just got to hiring. Yeah, I got the word accountability chart from Gino Wickman, when he wrote the book traction, as opposed to organizational chart. And I've always liked that idea of having absolutely having an accountability chart, like who are you accountable to? And what are you accountable for, as opposed to just kind of, you know, popping it up there. And I like the idea of your accountabilities more than I like the idea of your title.
Vai 13:44
Absolutely. Correct. Yes.
Pete Mohr 13:47
That's a big thing. that's a that's a mental shift for I think a lot of entrepreneurs that people want titles, right, they want a title. And but really, what comes with a title? Well, accountability,
Vai 14:00
accountability comes with a title, yes, but not a lot of them understand that, you know, good on your resume on your CV and to be portrayed as the next step in my career. And, you know, it goes both ways. We cannot just blame employees and candidates that they want a title not at all organizations have a bigger responsibility with great power comes great responsibility, as spider man says, right organizations have a collective responsibility to be able to be cognizant of the fact that these titles are important, and sometimes as a negotiating tool, they just give it to candidates, you know, just because they want the candidate so bad. It's amazing. You know, when
Pete Mohr 14:37
I look at some of this stuff, one of the things that talking about the placement and all that sort of stuff, and I'd like to talk a little bit about the idea that looking at compensation as an investment as opposed to an expense. You know, we started off the conversation with saying that, yeah, there's cost to this, but when you reframe Your people as an investment as opposed to an expense. It just changes things.
Vai 15:07
Yes, it's an expenditure versus an expense expenditure is an investment. You know, when you invest in your tools, when you invest in your plant machinery, when you invest in your assets, you know, it's an expenditure, that's how it gets written off in your book, an expense is just an expense, it just happens. It's like your food expense. It never ever comes back in the book the same way that it came the past year. So yes, it is an investment. And it has got to be an investment at all points in time, compensation and total compensation. You know, although payroll comes on the liability side of your financial statement, it is not a liability. It's an asset side. And as an HR professional, and again, my HR friends would agree with me, it has been a struggle for us to be able to get that space, and move from the liability side of the balance sheet to the asset side of the balance sheet and get organizations to understand that people are their assets, and it's an investment, and the return on the investment is not immediate, never made. It is over time. And that's one investment just like time is an investment, people are an investment itself.
Pete Mohr 16:16
For sure. I love that. I think that's for me, sort of a key takeaway here today, too, is that if we can get entrepreneurs to look at that, and to say, let's move it over, on to the asset side, right, from a managerial, I mean, from a financial side of accounting. Yeah, it's got to be on the expense side, but from a managerial side of the the accounting, when you're looking at it, it truly is an asset. And that's what that's the big takeaway here, too. Awesome. Well, do you have any final takeaways here to share with our listeners today, by
Vai 16:54
the final takeaway, you know, we've got a lot of mantras these days about people. And you know, our investment in people, servant leadership is, you know, although has been there for many years, at least in the culture that I come from, I would also kind of put into the years of my listeners this idea about tough love, right? Yeah, you know, it's just like parenting, any organization managers have to do a little bit of babysitting. It's the proportions that you have to manage, and not really, the babysitting itself. Employees just need the right dose of tough love. We'll be sure to succeed and bringing out the best in them. I love
Pete Mohr 17:31
that. And I think everybody needs a little tough love every now and then whether it's your family or your friends or your employees or your NGO. It's around the circle. Right? we all we all need a little shot every now and then to bring us back to reality.
Vai 17:45
Absolutely. Yes.
Pete Mohr 17:46
Well, thanks so much for sharing all of your wisdom here today on the simplifying entrepreneurship podcast, I really appreciate it. If somebody wants to reach out to you and get a hold of you regarding any of these conversations or just wants to touch base, what's the best way to get ahold of you?
Vai 18:02
I'm very open to any mentorship or requirements that any of our listeners have our young HR grooming professionals. I'm available easily on my email, I always respond to my emails within 24 hours. My email address is vaish32@yahoo.com. That's the first five letters of my name 32@yahoo.com.
Pete Mohr 18:22
Awesome. Well, thanks again. I'm looking forward to yet another version is so happy that you've agreed to be a special recurring guest here on the simplifying entrepreneurship podcast looking forward to our next conversation via so until then, make it a great day and we'll talk to you soon thank you
Vai 18:39
so much beat Samia, take care.
Pete Mohr 18:44
Well, that was an awesome conversation with via I always appreciate my chats with her. She's such a wealth of knowledge. So thanks for spending some time with me here on the simplifying entrepreneurship podcast today. Think about how you can apply today's simplifying entrepreneurship topic of how do you attract the right fit talent for your business to advance your business and have an even better entrepreneurial life. If you like the podcast, please share it with your friends and invite them to listen. And for more information on my entrepreneurial programs, visit www.Mohr.Coach . and until next time, make it a great day.
19:35
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